I'm interested in truth & what it means for individuals & humanity. This re-vamped blog is dedicated to truth and honest questions about faith in Jesus Christ. It is an effort to engage in authentic dialogue among Christians, Atheists and all points in between. Posts that do not honor legitimate discussion may be removed at my discretion. That doesn't mean that you can't disagree, but it DOES mean that you can't be a jerk. Welcome to the discussion.
This is an open forum for any new topics to be discussed. When a new comment is written by visitors, I'll tailor the post heading to match. Start something good!
Let me begin first by thanking your for posting the ungainly entirety of my posts in the Hawking thread. Whether or not we return to that, I sincerely appreciate your employ of open discussion. It is in the interest of branching off our talks into smaller, more managable and digestable bits that I take up your offer to begin a new topic.
From the Hawking thread, we skirted around the issue of acceptance of the miraculous. I urge the reader to read Corbin's September 25 quote in context, though for this purpose I'll copy it alone (http://thepeakcommunity.blogspot.com/2010/09/stephen-hawkings-premature-proclamation.html):
"[Y]ou asked on what basis I accept miraculous events. A fair question, but one that merits a longer post. For now, let me say, that I am open to many accounts of the miraculous until I have good reason not to be." (emphasis added)
It is that last sentence upon which I'd like to start our next conversation, if you are willing. I won't get too far ahead of myself until you explain your position in greater detail, but I'll start by saying that last sentence denotes credulity, the opposite of skepticism. This is a slippery slope in accepting any claims, much less those of the supernatural/miraculous/religious sort.
That's all I wish to begin with. I look forward to your response, as always.
Streeter, I must not have communicated effectively, for before we start a new thread, it is my desire to handle the objections and arguments that you've made thus far. I still intend to address each of your equivocations as posted in our other discussion, as well as explain what has been misunderstood of my own musings, but we will do so as individual threads, rather than one big one all bundled together. Eventually we may get to your recent topic proposal, but first things first.
In the meantime, context is everything, so would you prefer that I post your parts of our unedited exchanges as "JS" or "JStreeter" or "Anonymous"? And not to worry, I will cut and paste my unedited words as well.
There are many arguments I struggle to comprehend, particularly with a God who knows everything. This is known as omniscience. If God knows everything then He knows the answer to all of our questions and the choices we make. In this respect, we are living a senseless life simply because everything is predetermined. From my understanding, God does not want obedient robots to worship and love him. In reality, we are preprogrammed. From God’s perspective, He has all the necessary knowledge of who we are. God knows exactly what we will think and do. His creation is the universal map. Do we have the freedom to choose? If God is omniscience we may conclude the following: 1) Everything is predetermined, 2) There is no purpose attached to our life; perhaps we are here for God’s entertainment, 3) God allows us to make choices, regardless of Him knowing the outcome(s) 4) God is not testing us because He already knows the outcome. 5) There is no judgment at the end of life; why judge someone if you already know the outcome. The outcome of any judgment is for our understanding and purpose only. Hopefully, my analogy will not lead anyone to assume we should act without thought or moral code. What I meant by “senseless life” is that there is no relevance in life from a God that knows everything (past, present, and future). I question what relevance are we to God if he knows everything? Perhaps, we only have relevance to each other. Note: I really want to stress the point about so called “tests” from God. The only reason to test something is to understand or acknowledge an UNKNOWN outcome. Simply put, there are no tests for God; If we are being tested then from what perspective or purpose?
Anonymous, Great questions. I hope to offer a partial reply later today, so please stay engaged as we explore this topic. It's a great theme, so I reserved a new post for it that can be found here: Open Forum on Faith...: God’s Omniscience & Foreknowledge
Please keep in mind that comments which do not honor the spirit of legitimate dialogue may be removed at any time and without notification. You are free to disagree passionately, but not inappropriately. -CL
Hello again, Corbin!
ReplyDeleteLet me begin first by thanking your for posting the ungainly entirety of my posts in the Hawking thread. Whether or not we return to that, I sincerely appreciate your employ of open discussion. It is in the interest of branching off our talks into smaller, more managable and digestable bits that I take up your offer to begin a new topic.
From the Hawking thread, we skirted around the issue of acceptance of the miraculous. I urge the reader to read Corbin's September 25 quote in context, though for this purpose I'll copy it alone (http://thepeakcommunity.blogspot.com/2010/09/stephen-hawkings-premature-proclamation.html):
"[Y]ou asked on what basis I accept miraculous events. A fair question, but one that merits a longer post. For now, let me say, that I am open to many accounts of the miraculous until I have good reason not to be." (emphasis added)
It is that last sentence upon which I'd like to start our next conversation, if you are willing. I won't get too far ahead of myself until you explain your position in greater detail, but I'll start by saying that last sentence denotes credulity, the opposite of skepticism. This is a slippery slope in accepting any claims, much less those of the supernatural/miraculous/religious sort.
That's all I wish to begin with. I look forward to your response, as always.
Respectfully,
JStreeter
Streeter,
ReplyDeleteI must not have communicated effectively, for before we start a new thread, it is my desire to handle the objections and arguments that you've made thus far. I still intend to address each of your equivocations as posted in our other discussion, as well as explain what has been misunderstood of my own musings, but we will do so as individual threads, rather than one big one all bundled together. Eventually we may get to your recent topic proposal, but first things first.
In the meantime, context is everything, so would you prefer that I post your parts of our unedited exchanges as "JS" or "JStreeter" or "Anonymous"? And not to worry, I will cut and paste my unedited words as well.
-CL
There are many arguments I struggle to comprehend, particularly with a God who knows everything. This is known as omniscience. If God knows everything then He knows the answer to all of our questions and the choices we make. In this respect, we are living a senseless life simply because everything is predetermined. From my understanding, God does not want obedient robots to worship and love him. In reality, we are preprogrammed. From God’s perspective, He has all the necessary knowledge of who we are. God knows exactly what we will think and do. His creation is the universal map. Do we have the freedom to choose?
ReplyDeleteIf God is omniscience we may conclude the following: 1) Everything is predetermined, 2) There is no purpose attached to our life; perhaps we are here for God’s entertainment, 3) God allows us to make choices, regardless of Him knowing the outcome(s) 4) God is not testing us because He already knows the outcome. 5) There is no judgment at the end of life; why judge someone if you already know the outcome. The outcome of any judgment is for our understanding and purpose only.
Hopefully, my analogy will not lead anyone to assume we should act without thought or moral code. What I meant by “senseless life” is that there is no relevance in life from a God that knows everything (past, present, and future). I question what relevance are we to God if he knows everything? Perhaps, we only have relevance to each other.
Note: I really want to stress the point about so called “tests” from God. The only reason to test something is to understand or acknowledge an UNKNOWN outcome. Simply put, there are no tests for God; If we are being tested then from what perspective or purpose?
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteGreat questions. I hope to offer a partial reply later today, so please stay engaged as we explore this topic. It's a great theme, so I reserved a new post for it that can be found here: Open Forum on Faith...: God’s Omniscience & Foreknowledge
or here:
God’s Omniscience and Foreknowledge
Thanks again!
-CL